stinkygoat: particle test

stinkygoat (

stinkygoat) wrote,
@ 2006-04-22 00:00:00

particle test
Just playing around with the new p-system generator. The text is kinda traditional.

Don't worry that you can't really see what's going on with the game there - you aren't meant to, really, it's just a particle test.

(Post a new comment)

	dr_memory 2006-04-22 12:51 am UTC (link)
	oooh, shiny! (Reply to this)

	shatterstripes 2006-04-22 01:01 am UTC (link)
	Pretty! The text is surprising, yet... somehow expected. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	stinkygoat 2006-04-22 09:12 am UTC (link)
	It is traditinal in these particular circumstances that I mention the emissions of beasts in which I am not particularly interested. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	youallboreme 2006-04-22 03:25 pm UTC (link)
	How'd that tradition start, dare I ask? :) Also, looks gorgeous - certainly the prettiest otter spunk I've seen in at least a couple days. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	entropicdude 2006-04-22 01:47 am UTC (link)
	OTTER SPUNK! (Reply to this)

	ravuya 2006-04-22 05:56 am UTC (link)
	Capybera spunk is new. (Reply to this)

	2049live 2006-04-22 06:50 am UTC (link)
	all at 60fps, I'm guessing? ;-) (Reply to this)

	stinkygoat 2006-04-22 11:00 am UTC (link)
	I did a couple of requests for the Oz contingent on IRC: (Reply to this)(Thread)

	ravuya 2006-04-23 07:59 pm UTC (link)
	Is that the "phoenix" from Unity? (Reply to this)(Parent)

	arron_shutt 2006-04-22 04:45 pm UTC (link)
	No "Donkey love custard" then? ;) (Reply to this)

	God... neon360 2006-04-23 07:31 am UTC (link)
	God I love your stuff! The gradient colors are amazing.... I can't wait to get my hands on your next release!!!!! Rock on dude! (Reply to this)

	dungeoneer 2006-04-25 09:23 pm UTC (link)
	Capybara spunk! But no okapi fanny batter? (Reply to this)

	zotmeister 2006-04-26 04:04 am UTC (link)
	You gotta admire someone who gives out gifts on his birthday. :) - ZM (Reply to this)

alanc5
2006-04-26 06:01 pm UTC (link)

I hate to be negative and I really don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings, but I was kinda hoping that the YaK's next game might have been something a bit more original?

Seeing the particle text on top of the psycadelic backgrounds kinda deflated me a little, I mean it's nice, but it's just a rehash of many years of the same type of thing, isn't it?

Don't take this bad, I do understand that a shooter is probably the most realistic option for two man team these days, and that larger projects usually mean more staff and more expense, but I know Yak can come up with something more than another Tempest.

Could be I'm jumping the gun a little? I hope so, I could really do with playing something refreshingly different especially from someone I admire so much.

Good luck with it anyway. Sometimes maybe you need some real feedback because anything other than glowing praise for Yak on the forum usually results in a flame attack and/or banning.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	stinkygoat 2006-04-26 06:07 pm UTC (link)
	Oh for goat's sake don't start whining on the basis of having seen a particle test with no actual gameplay visible. For smeg's sake, I think I'll just keep everything to myself and not show anything. Can't stand it when people start lining up to pick holes BEFORE I'VE EVEN DONE ANYTHING. Jeez. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	alanc5 2006-04-26 06:20 pm UTC (link)
	Sorry, Yak, I have sinned. It is the bestest most wonderful thing ever. You are great, the best games designer the world, no doubt. That better? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

stinkygoat
2006-04-26 06:30 pm UTC (link)

Oh, stop being wilfully obtuse.

My point is that trying to criticise what I'm doing on the basis of what I've shown so far is like telling an author that his novel is going to be "disappointing" on account of having seen the colour of the ink in his biro.

You know *nothing* of my plans for the actual gameplay, and nothing is revealed by the screenshots shown, which basically show a particle test in the Neon environment. So quite how you leap to the extraordinary conclusion that all I am doing is a "rehash" I don't know.

Maybe all I should be doing for XBLA then is what everyoine *else* is doing and just porting versions of existing, older games, rather than trying to do something new?

If I wanted to do a "rehash" it'd be trivial for me to knock out an upgraded T2K in a couple of months, after all.

The fact is I will do what I will always do, and that is to make the games that *I* damn well want and no amount of people sighing and tutting and wishing I would do things *their* way will change that, ever.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	ropotov 2006-04-26 08:43 pm UTC (link)
	Are you dreaming of 360 rotary controllers (modded PGR3 steering wheels)? :) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

stinkygoat
2006-04-26 08:50 pm UTC (link)

That would be good for a Tempest remake but isn't really suitable for this game which requires several different types of control input, depending on the level }:-)... I believe I should be able to get what I need from the dual-analogs, although of course I'll keep my eyes out for anything super interesting at e3.

I doubt I'd want to tie the game to a nonstandard control interface though.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	ropotov 2006-04-26 08:55 pm UTC (link)
	Web cam support? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	stinkygoat 2006-04-26 09:08 pm UTC (link)
	Well that's in by default as it's running on the latest Neon engine which incorporates 360 cam stuff... dunno how I'd use it in the game yet though :). (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	ropotov 2006-04-26 09:23 pm UTC (link)
	http://mrl.nyu.edu/~jhan/ftirtouch/ ? (Reply to this)(Parent)

alanc5
2006-04-26 09:59 pm UTC (link)

It was obtuse because you responded like a little girl who's just had her dolly nicked. Of course I only have the screenshots to go on, and that is exactly why I wrote that I was "maybe jumping the gun a little", and hoped I was wrong.

As it happens you *do* have a history of "rehashes". Just about every game you have ever written is based on someone elses original, is it not? So why you take such umbrance at being called on this I don't know. In fact, most people seem to think you are the original author of Robotron and Tempest, which is quite absured.

If someone of your intelligence isn't capable of making the reach that would lead me to why I would post my comment: backgrounds and pixel particle text, and where that might lead, then again I can just guess that you are feeling frustrated and felt like jumping down my throat.

"The fact is I will do what I will always do, and that is to make the games that *I* damn well want and no amount of people sighing and tutting and wishing I would do things *their* way will change that, ever."

Well that's nice for you, arrogant as hell, but nice. Except in the real world mate you are writing for a market, me, not for the fun of it, and if your market is, shall we say, suggesting, that you need to do something different it makes commercial sense to take that feedback on board. Otherwise people don't buy your games. I can tell you now that just from your attitude I would never touch another one of your titles. So, well done on that front too.

Some advice: if you don't want comments, don't bloody well post pictures. Make sense? My comments were hardly scathing yet you responded like they were. If you can't take criticism, don't engage the public.

Mate, all you had to say was that I was simply wrong, tease me a little with how wrong I was, pitch it like you did for Unity...how great it's going to be, is that so fucking hard? You've really pissed me off when I meant no harm to you whatsoever.

Fuck sake, what an arrogrant prick you are. I hope it bombs.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	stinkygoat 2006-04-26 10:51 pm UTC (link)
	Bye then }:-). (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	alanc5 2006-04-27 08:21 am UTC (link)
	Hahah! Clamped the almighty mouthpiece! Wooohoo! Woot! Back 'o the net. Get in. I love it when I'm right, etc... (Reply to this)(Parent)

stinkygoat
2006-04-26 11:06 pm UTC (link)

Furthermore you misunderstand: I *do* write completely for the fun of it. I write to create exactly the things I want to make exist - be that games, lightsynths, whatever. Frequently the things that I want are things that others want too. That's how it's been in my 25 years' experience as a game designer. I care about the things I make because I really want them to exist. If all I cared about was the money I could have taken *far* easier paths through life, believe me.

So no, I don't pay a huge amount of attention to someone who once failed to write an Amiga tennis game telling me how I should be doing things, thank you so very much. If there is arrogance then it is exactly in your trying to tell me how I should go about my creative process.

I post pictures because I think it's fun to share that creative process to an extent; I do not expect every passing idiot with an opinion of how it *should* be done to turn round and tell me how to do my job. If you can do better, then be my guest, go ahead and do so. I'm not stopping you.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	feh! surprise_rose 2006-04-26 11:48 pm UTC (link)
	don't let one voice of dissent dissuade you from showing (almost said disseminating - too many diss-words) pics. the rest of us eat it up! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: feh!

stinkygoat
2006-04-27 12:21 am UTC (link)

Yeah I know, it just gets my bloody goat when someone up and out of nothing starts telling me how I *should* be doing things, without actually seeing any of the stuff I am actually doing now and intending to try with the game mechanic too. I love XBLA but there is a lot of rehashery on there at the moment, some of it excellent, but enough that I'm not coming out with anything with Roby controls on it for a while };-). And it really *would* have been much easier to arrange to just do a very nice T2K remake and coin it in from that, but I really want to explore using Neon as a game engine, and I really want to explore some ideas I have as to bringing some fun, different, interesting control stuff to a Live Arcade title at the same time, and I'm just now starting to feel that I'm heading in the right direction with that.

So I'm taking the risk of self-funding the project over a considerably longer period of time than it would take to just bang out another Tempest remake, because that's what I want to do and think that in the long run people would enjoy more - so yeah, I get a little tetchy when someone tries to imply that I'm doing the very stuff I'm trying to avoid.

Anyway, it's starting to feel good and fun, and Giles has got some excellent generative geometry stuff that I'm really looking forward to integrating :).

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: feh!
alanc5
2006-04-27 08:34 am UTC (link)

Well blummin eck why didn't you just say that? Instead of all the bitchyness?

Nowhere did I tell you what you should be doing.

Look anyway, I'm guessing you are generally pissed off for whatever reason and I happened across at a bad time. If I upset you then I apologise, but as I wrote in my first message, that was never my intention. I fucking love you stuff, waited way, way too long for a game from you so I was concerned, that's all.

You even admit yourself there that XBLA is rehash central...can you blame me for worrying? Without blowing smoke up your arse what you produce is usually very refreshing which is why I am really looking forward to it. For YEARS now if you've ever read any of my posts on Unity I've been wishing you well...that's all.

FWIW I get negative comments and suggestions everyday on my software, but what I do is pretty much negotiate with my clients on what's workable and what isn't- they drive the development which in the end makes them very happy. We obviously come from two schools of thought on that one.

So yeah, I apologise...get your final dig in if you must :o) Just write us something wonderful, m'kay?

Al

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: feh!
(Anonymous)
2006-04-28 11:01 pm UTC (link)

I just followed the link from another site and wasn`t expecting to see this!

That guy is a twat.

You may not have not have come up with the original Tempest BUT you made T2K your own (I love the whole visual/audio feel). It takes something to take a seed of someone else idea and create something special.

I also love Gridrunner ++ - I just love the humor.

I was gutted about Unity. But at least you were trying something different.

Now PLEASE PLEASE release T3K (you said it would only take you a couple of months) on PSP. I know you don`t do it for the money but I will be the first to put a £100 deposit for the game.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

(Anonymous)
2006-04-27 06:25 am UTC (link)

Except in the real world mate you are writing for a market, me, not for the fun of it...

Now that's where it all falls apart. "In the real world" Yak's been doing this for a couple of decades, and successfully too. Obviously, the method of "make the games that *I* damn well want..." is working. Saying what The Real World is like when 20+ years of history says otherwise is a pretty bizarre thing to do.

Keep the pics coming, Yak, and don't let the occasional person jumping to odd conclusions stop you from sharing the fun of creation. :)

James

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

alanc5
2006-04-27 08:16 am UTC (link)

How is it working? Unity got dropped? Making the game that he damn well wanted ended up with no game at all.

20+ years of history means exactly nothing when your title doesn't shift volume. Publishers will drop you without a care in the world for your vet status.

Remember this is an industry, not some playground. Unless you have the means to develop software for the fun of it then just like everything else, it is the market that dictates direction. You are free to believe otherwise but ask Peter Molyneux or countless other industry veterans what happens when you do what you damn well want. More so what happens when you speak to your fans like they are dogshit and their opinions are...dogshit.

This is so ridiculous. Either you are grossly misinformed or just one of the blind fanboys who run to his defence whenever the slightest negative comment is thrown his way.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(Anonymous)
2006-04-27 08:44 am UTC (link)

Yep, Unity got canned. A couple of years ago. That's one project out of dozens, I don't really see it as some kind of pattern.

Since then, Neon has been completed and released in the 360 firmware and the PC version is just waiting for the publisher to get into gear. Prior to Unity was Gridrunner++, one of the finest shooters I've ever played.

Fanboy? Maybe, but not blind. I think Minter is right and you're wrong in this particular discussion. Also, I've had it up to here with the market telling me what it is I want to buy based on demographics, product testing, focus groups, and a belief that I'm willing to buy the same damn thing time after time after time. It's my money and I don't feel any obligation to buy the umpteenth version of FPS-of-the-week, or Emo Bomberman 360, or whatever.

What I'm willing to spend money on is a new Llamasoft shooter, and at worst I expect it to be pretty. Remember this is a Live Arcade project, and as such can afford to be more a personal statement about shooters than some watered-down mass-market study in consumer pandering.

Or how about this- Screw product, I want art.

James

(Reply to this)(Parent)

(Anonymous)
2006-04-27 11:06 am UTC (link)

Mr Sheen shines umpteen things clean...

He wouldn't let it lie etc...

Looking forward to Amiga Mobile Tennis, fella. Just remember that I want baboons in it because I'm the market for Mobile Tennis Games and you have to play to me, k - ask any software company that hasn't included baboons in their games what happens when they ignore their fans... *puff* they disappear, maaaan. No Baboon, no sale.

Give it up Mr Sheen, it got tiring long ago.

;)

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	(Anonymous) 2006-04-29 07:24 am UTC (link)
	Please do a rehash of T2K. Pretty please? (Reply to this)(Parent)

stinkygoat
2006-04-26 07:10 pm UTC (link)

Oh, and FWIW, nobody has *ever* been banned from Yakyak for criticism of my work. To imply that is utterly disingenuous. There have only ever been a handful of bannings, and they have been when someone has, in the eyes of the moderators, behaved in an annoyingly offensive manner.

I have no casting vote on who gets the axe, I don't even agree with some of the bannings myself, and certainly none have ever been down to criticism of my work. Not everyone who posts there even likes or plays my stuff, it's just a community of people, not a roost for fanboys.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

_lj_sucks_
2006-05-11 03:26 pm UTC (link)

I hate to be negative and I really don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings, but I was kinda hoping that the YaK's next game might have been something a bit more original?

I don't care about originality, I just hope there are more releases on non-Microsoft platforms. Ever since the era of the Atari ST ended, I've been stuck watching Minteresque developments from a distance. Still got my Trip-A-Tron disks and manual somewhere in a box at my parents' house...

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Well "moderation" is the key.

gilesgoat
2006-04-27 01:10 am UTC (link)

Yak,

you still have to remember that whatever you put on display "the world is going into flames" .

Example, look how some people nicked those photos and immediately started to make speculations and such in some other gaming forums, I bet they did not ask you at all any permission to do that or am I wrong ?

Thing that always *REALLY* pisses me off is this "continuous comparision" comes out any time about "it's Unity, why Unity not" and such.

It's a damned ghost that never disappears, but nevermind, people can think the strafuck they want we know is dead and buried and other stuff naturally took its place.

Aye.

Listen to my suggestion Jeff, "talk less, show less", we know how it goes, you should know even better than me how it goes.

It's a strange world, personally quite some time I don't like at all much how "fanboysm and comments" sometime can come up, is part of the work sure but it's not always very pleasant.

Definitely is quite stressfull at times.

You should see by yourself anyway we are not on 1984 any more, times are changed, people are changed, the whole videogame thing is changed, life is changed.

"Nuff said" I'd say for now, next stuff "more eyedrop use", you see what people does with your (our) stuff, so CARE is needed.

Interesting to see anyway "how much noise it can generate", pity that some "other people" at times seems to have lot less enthusiasm for new stuff than what we (and the people here) have.

It's always a damned battle to bring some SW out properly.

About my stuff I am not going to show a byte of it until it reached the point I have in mind, that's secret technology >:)

(Reply to this)

	gutgouger 2006-04-28 04:13 pm UTC (link)
	There will always be people on the interweb who will shoot you down in flames these days. personally I just ignore them :) I've been a Yak fan ever since Llamatron and Revenge of the Mutant Camels back on my old Atari ST, and am longing to get my hands on a new classic. Looking forward to seeing some gameplay pics of this one, whatever it might end up being ;-) (Reply to this)(Thread)

	alanc5 2006-04-28 06:17 pm UTC (link)
	Jesus Christ, are we all sharing the same planet? You would think I launched some massive attack on him instead of gently suggesting that I hoped it wasn't Tempest 2000 with nicer graphics. How the fuck that gets interpreted as shooting somebody down in flames I'll never know. What a complete bunch of bastards. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(Anonymous)
2006-04-28 10:24 pm UTC (link)

Your gentle suggestions sounded like an attack. You may or may not have a valid point. That's completely irrelevant, because the manner that you decided to present your view completely turned everyone off. You weren't polite. You sounded snide and hostile from sentence one. You also proved that you hadn't even read the text associated with the images, because Jeff clearly stated it was just a tech demo with no gameplay.

If you can't ask questions politely and sincerely, then you have no leg to stand on when everyone gets angry at you for being rude and snide.

-failrate

(Reply to this)(Parent)

(Anonymous)
2006-04-28 11:11 pm UTC (link)

alanc5,
Mate, you are the tosser...

It wasn`t your original post but your subsequent reaction to YAK.

He made a valid point against your first post.

Then you come back and started attacking him, who has contributed to this industry (and many happy gaming memories for many people).

Why should he write for YOU? I would rather he writes something that HE wants to play and hope it is something I do too (and judging by his previous work it most likely will be).

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Sorry if I missed it...
basic_thought
2006-05-01 08:33 am UTC (link)

I just recently found the livejjournal, because I'm an idiot that just kept going to YakYak and seeing that ht elast blog was in 2005 and then left without noticing it was a link to here.

I was one of the vocal parties when Unity got dropped, and a short itme later the Neon project was announced. I'm still mad about it, but also work for a living, and know that money is a necessity for survival. What I would like to know is if you (Mr. Minter) are working specifically on Xbox titles, or if between hair pulling moments you dabble in other works (like how Geometry Wars was created as a side project)?

Also, I'm sure it's been asked a thousand or so times, so a one word answer would work out swell for this next question. Do you own full rights to the Unity project, and is there any chance the Nintendo 5 (Rev, Wii) will see something similar as a backwards compatible game?

Thank you.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Sorry if I missed it...

gilesgoat
2006-05-01 10:03 am UTC (link)

One day I will have to form the commitee "stop talking Unity, the future is now".

People can't get at all when "something is over" and that "is time to move on other stuff" ?

I have to be harsh now, sorry if I am getting you here but IT IS *OVER*, OVER.

There are various reason for why trying to resume such a project would be .. .. let's say "highly impractical" for LS, is not going to happen, you won't see it any more, full stop.

Why we should ever do "a backwards compatible thing" when we are super full of new ideas and new projects ?

No, we are not working on any "side project", we are 100% full on time and resource on "projects", it's not really we have spare time to do stuff "because we don't have better to do", we are very busy, thanks Goat.

The future is full of stuff, we are concetrating and focusing on improving and trying to develop innovative things using new methods and technologies.

Ninti/Sony .. well .. of course "given a chanche/possibility" we develop for everything.

Of course we have to deal with our "schedule", what we are already working on, the contract limitations and such and what we want to do.

And to have a reasonable business deal, last thing not to forget.

Doing a thing and bringing it to full competition is a thing involving all a set of really complex factors and sometime not all the factors go as they should have gone, it is alawys a bit of a bet and risk to do stuff, you never know how it really ends until you reach the end.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Sorry if I missed it...
(Anonymous)
2006-05-02 06:02 am UTC (link)

I think the funny thing is, Mr. Goat, that Unity was a project that was intended to create a procedural light-synth + game all in one package. Now, Neon is out the door and dancing about on televisions, and y'all are working on an as-yet-unannounced game that uses Neon for rendering. So, it basically is Unity *in spirit* and similarly designed (regardless of the actual gameplay, the concept of a lightsynth as a rendering engine). I just find that funny. "When's Unity?", but like whatever gaming goodness y'all spawn with Neon as the rendering engine will basically *be* Unity... just not named "Unity" and probably not having the same gameplay.

Innit? failrate

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Sorry if I missed it... gilesgoat 2006-05-02 01:18 pm UTC (link)
	Man .. I won't talk more in this thread .. I can only say that .. well, I won't add anything else really. Nuff said, "feel free to think what you prefer". Already "too much stirred". (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Sorry if I missed it...

stinkygoat
2006-05-02 02:42 pm UTC (link)

Well there was much more to the concept of Unity than just "a game built on a lightsynth engine". The concept encompassed a *lot* more (some of it quite like some of the ideas now coming out in that evolutionary game "Spore") - in the end it was that complexity on top of the work of building a suitable lightsynth engine which made the project too big for us to do justice to in the timescale we had.

This game we're doing now is just a nice, reasonably quick project that uses Neon as its graphics engine. And even *that* idea doesn't necessarily mean it's Unity - after all T2K and T3K both made extensive use of lightsynth-style techniques; it's a style I've been developing for more than 10 years now.

Our new game will be a good, fun shooter based on the Neon engine, with some interesting environments and control methods :).

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Sorry if I missed it... (Anonymous) 2006-05-04 04:04 pm UTC (link)
	Ah, okay, I see the difference now. Thanks :D -failrate (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Funniest thing I think Ive seen for a long time (Anonymous) 2006-07-24 06:38 pm UTC (link)
	After this thread, a certain alanc and you had a bit of a fall out, well he mentioned it on his blog, and ha ha ha, I like the replacment image you put up :) Funny funny funny........ http://alanc5.livejournal.com/ (Reply to this)

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